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TOPIC: 2013 WNYMBA Racing

Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43198

Slower Than, I'm sorry but I can not answer your question that would require me to go off topic from Scotto's original post. If you would like to start a new thread on a new topic please do so.
No Goal, Wide Right, I'll just go ride my bike
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2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43159

Erik Nowakowski
A few things about Scott's article on the front page:
1. Very well written and I agreed with all points...great job!
2. This applies to CX racing as well. I participated in the race at Delaware park and have competed in several over the years. I had more incidents in one lap there then I did all the other races I have participated in combined. I think the spike in incidents really came from the riders and not the course set up. This is what I think led to it:
1. I am not fast...yep I said it and if you are unsure look at the results from the race. I am however very technically savvy as my experience comes from MTB, road, CX, and commuting.
2. The race has become extremely popular and the number of entrants has expanded each year.
3. There are places/locations to pass and there are other locations where you need to either pass before or after...but not during. Whether CX or MTB if you are trying to pass during a highly technical section or tight area which has open areas to pass before and after shame on you. As Scott stated he has in the past conversed with the other racer to figure out a way to make that happen. If you try to overtake another rider in one of these areas you may take them out, yourself, or both.
4. Look ahead! On the first lap just leading up to a turn up hill in a muddy area two riders past me (I think racing each other) with out any call out. I had begun to slow down as one rider was picking themselves up, and another rider had practically ran into him. The other two riders came in sooo hot that they fell and knocked into each other. So all 4 wound up in a pile and I rode on by.
5. You may be "road" fast, but not technically fast. Know your limit, call out to me that you are coming up, and because I am just racing to race, I will let you by...trust me. However, if you do not announce yourself expect I am going to take the best line at all times until you alert me to your presence.

Lastly, I am not talking about the fast racers in the cat 4 race. All of them had plenty of experience and etiquette. I am talking about the road transplants that are already faster then me. Show up to a practice sponsored by Campus or John Roden and learn the basics. I learn something every time I go or talk to those guys.
29'rs Rule !!!
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by Scotto.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43154

penguin wrote:
It is a pain paying a extra $10 per race for a one day license, but it is the only way one can compete in races. The season license is $60 I believe and since I was planning on only doing local races (5) I couldn't see paying for the year pass. The disadvantage I guess is you can only race Cat 4 with a one day and you do not accumulate points towards upgrading your license class. Since I am a cross newbie, I figured that is the only class i would compete in anyway. If you look at the results I finished 55th so I am hardly competitive. Cat 4 doesn't have much for prizes, so bagging isn't really worth it- I wouldn't know- I would have to have a 2hour head start just to have a chance at podium. The class is pretty wide open on ability levels, with most racers being pretty experienced.
I can see my level of fitness and expertise is not even close to being competitive.

This is a great example to why scotto does not want the races the sanctioned.

The same thing happened when most of the downhill races were NORBA and USAC sanctioned. Expert level guys would come out for one race and be forced to race sport or beginner and they would clean house on race day. Not to mention Sport and beginner racers ride a much easier track than expert and pro at downhill races.

Keep the local races open for all until it each event is big enough need USAC, probably 200+ riders IMO.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43153

twright wrote:
There is some talk about holding a race down here (Harris Hill) next Fall... would like to get some input from new riders.
I have only ridden there once and that was last year. There has been a lot of work done since and more planned. I'm thinking this place will be an excellent venue, drawing some new and different people.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43152

I was one of the 63 finishers in the Cat 4 catagory at Sundays cross race. It was the largest turnout I've seen in the three races I've attended. It is a pain paying a extra $10 per race for a one day license, but it is the only way one can compete in races. The season license is $60 I believe and since I was planning on only doing local races (5) I couldn't see paying for the year pass. The disadvantage I guess is you can only race Cat 4 with a one day and you do not accumulate points towards upgrading your license class. Since I am a cross newbie, I figured that is the only class i would compete in anyway. If you look at the results I finished 55th so I am hardly competitive. Cat 4 doesn't have much for prizes, so bagging isn't really worth it- I wouldn't know- I would have to have a 2hour head start just to have a chance at podium. The class is pretty wide open on ability levels, with most racers being pretty experienced.
I can see my level of fitness and expertise is not even close to being competitive.
I only race for the fun of it and because it is spectator friendly for my family.
The license and points and upgrading I guess is important for the experts- I'll never be there so It doesn't really matter to me. The rules are pretty specific for course setup and racing so I guess that keeps things kinda equal between venues.

Penguin
Mommy- theres a root on the trail! Make it go away! I want my Binkie
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43147

The three skill classes and age groups within the classes is exactly what NORBA had going in the 90's and early 2000's which worked very well. I see no reason at all to become sanctioned at this point and it would probably turn away noobs along with seasoned riders looking to do one or two races a season.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43142

That is the answer I was looking for thanks.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43141

First lets not confuse things by trying to compare mountain bike racing with road or cross racing. These are totally different diciplines with totally different classes and licensing structures that do not carry over between each other. One of the major reasons why NORBA collapsed was that USAC was trying to run them much like road races, but that's off topic and a long story.
We went the USAC route last year (2011), didn't make any difference at all. Basically just more paperwork and fees. The licensing isn't as simple as adding on a mountain bike license either. Believe me I went as far as becoming an USAC official to try and run things sanctioned, but after doing it for a year, we decided it wasn't needed for our races.
We also came to the realization that sanction was not needed to bring new racers in or police our classes. We feel that 10 year increment age groups and three skill classes divides everyone up into fair competative groups. Most people are good sports and want to challenge themselves so although sandbagging happens, there are very few that do it and it doesn't discourage others from racing. Racers pretty much know which class they should be racing in and sandbaggers usually get the hint from all the drama and gossip at the races.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43140

While I certainly don't like this description of how Scotto and I structure categories and attempt to insure people are in the correct class;

"shamed into self selecting the correct ability-based category" by "grass roots" race promoters operating without "any kind of coherent governance structure at the local level"

I'm not convinced that a sanctioning body with all it's rules is the answer for our WNYMBA races. Scotto has researched USAC and the like much more than I have so I'll defer to him.

Regarding this;Scottish wrote:
It could make events more even per class and possibly more inviting to newer racers.

At a local USAC event held this past weekend, Bikereg showed 123 registered. The results show 63 racers in the Cat 4/Citizens category. 65 if you count two DNF's.

How is this making events "more even per class"? Are USAC MTB categories structured differently?

Our goal is to get prizes(preferably cash) into the hands of as many racers as possible.
Not very fast but havin' fun!
www.bluelinebicyclerepair.com
Last Edit: 2 years 6 months ago by slower_than_u.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43139

  • drabb
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Scottish wrote:
It could make events more even per class and possibly more inviting to newer racers.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does having a national license make things easier for noobs? If anything, I'd say being licensed would scare off beginners.

I know of a few races where they take the USA license (Farmall comes to mind). Usually if you've got the license entry fee is -$5 bucks. Which is nice, but then you need to recoup your license fee. And alot of races will require a 'one-day' license, rolled into your race entry fee.

If I remember correctly, running sanctioned events sucks for the race promoter. Personally, I don't think it makes the event better, easier to enter, or help to keep the classes fair.

Now, online pre-reg (regardless of license), that's a different story.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43138

Just curious about something. Instead of having beginner, sport, expert classes, was there, is there, or will there be talk about going to the licencing system that the USCA has? It is likely too close to the new year to implement for the upcoming season. It seems a good handful of people are racing other events that require a USCA licence like road races or cyclocross. It would just be an add-on I believe to their current licence. I am not saying this should or should not be implemented, just seeing if it was ever brought up. It could make events more even per class and possibly more inviting to newer racers.
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Re: 2013 WNYMBA Racing 2 years 6 months ago #43136

fat guy wrote:
If I was a promoter, I would make sure the expert class gets an expert level course in terms of distance and difficulty.

I agree with you. When I raced DH it was always nice to have a track that was difficult to ride top to bottom fast and error free.
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