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Where to build jumps/drops/berms....
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TOPIC: Where to build jumps/drops/berms....

Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 1 year ago #44199

I grew up just up the road from Emery and rode there all the time. There are a lot of different spots that could be used for some features. It's definitely a cool proposition for the trails there! I rode at hunters today and was thinking there could be some features built into the natural terrain very easily. I say go for both!

Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 4 weeks ago #44328

Yeah.UMMM...thanks for the super support on this! You guys really deserve Donuts!

Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44332

So... that probably is not the right way to go on this.

The reality is that the club is made up of members who advocate and build what they see fit. If it is cross county trails, then that is what it is. If it is to build trails to support a race series at a particular park, then great.

If you want more jumps/berms/drops, then it falls on you to be the leader. You need to recruit members to help advocate and build the type of features that you want. You can not just sit back, say you want different trails and then wait for them to be built and then go ride. If there was a large enough contingent of riders who wanted trails with more features and they got together to work through the red tape and the building efforts, then the trails would be here. If there are a bunch of passengers who don't want to come out and put in the effort and then throw around insults.... well then.

If I remember correctly, there was some interest in some type of bike park down around Peak 'n Peak that never got off of the ground. That might be a place to begin. Putting in jumps/drops, etc may not fly on county land. It may need to be on private land.

There is already too much trail work for the number of club members who show up for trail days. It would take a whole new group of riders to make this happen.

And I'm sure if you provide donuts, they will be there to help you build.
  • Lucas
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Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44333

"If you want more jumps/berms/drops, then it falls on you to be the leader. You need to recruit members to help advocate and build the type of features that you want. You can not just sit back, say you want different trails and then wait for them to be built and then go ride. If there was a large enough contingent of riders who wanted trails with more features and they got together to work through the red tape and the building efforts, then the trails would be here. If there are a bunch of passengers who don't want to come out and put in the effort and then throw around insults.... well then. "

This is a fair point, and one that I don't disagree with. But I don't know if it is that simple. I remember a few years ago when i started a posting about the support/lack of support the mountain bike community gives to local shops. A point that was brought up to me was 'what do shops do to motivate us to come in? Ok. fair point. But after reading this response I have to ask what has wnymba done to bring in this group of riders and trail builders? Yes, if people want trails like this they need to step up, but is there a will to back them up? Why doesn't wnymba take the lead on this? Buffalo usually five years behind just like snowboarding. The trails here aren't typical of where bikes are going. More and more travel with slacker geometries. For example a staple in the Giant line is the 120 mm trance. That bike has been redisgned with slacker angles and 140 mm of squish. They will have no 120 mm travel bike this year. This seems to be a developing trend. And since Giant is a company that has had an increase in sales (and makes most pf the bikes people ride and puts the companies name who is paying them to build them, and is the world's largest bike company) (www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2013/08/14/giant-bicycle-sales-4-first-half#.UiQdNmS9Kc0) in a down year (www.bicycleretailer.com/search/node/bike%20sales%20down) I think this deserves notice.

This is an issue that the mountain bike community at large is struggling with on the highest levels, not just local levels.

m.cyclingnews.com/news/riders-rave-about-more-technical-courses-at-mountain-bike-worlds#next

Unfortunately I can't find the article but there was one of a pro x c woman criticizing the difficulty and injuries sustained on the course.

It's even happening on the road as organizer s try to make it more exciting.

velonews.competitor.com/2013/08/vuelta-a-espana/martin-crashes-riders-criticize-dangerous-finale-at-vuelta_301

And did anyone see that descent on the c x course this weekend? That was a bit harrowing on a cross bike.

When trails are built and maintained, why can't these features be incorporated? With appropriate go arounds and with approval. The pictures that obby provided appear safe. Put dirt around the wood with a let out so if you go off the wood path there is an appropriate out. Stair stones for hikers. Would this eliminate pirate features which pose a risk to trail access?

People are already doing things to change the trails in the interest in 'safety.' Adding sticks in holes (which could kick up into spokes causing injury) or knocking Der into spokes. This alone causes the risk of injury just like features do. Widening of trails (you could have matching bands now go through parts of sprague). Do property owners managers want trails getting wider and wider causing erosion and a greater human foot print, as well as possible safety issues as these trails that are worn in with no real thought of safety?

"There is already too much trail work for the number of club members who show up for trail days. It would take a whole new group of riders to make this happen."

If there is already too much trail work for the current number of club members and if there aren't enough members to maintain the current trails, why is wnymba building more trails? I do understand the argument that when permission is given to build trails, action needs to happen quickly or access might be lost. I get the whole permission and acting fast, but what about safety if current trails aren't maintained? Doesn't that jeopardize trail access? Has anyone ridden Hunters lately with all the washouts looking to eat people up? (And yes, i know these have been trail work days at Hunter's, But there is no way you can say it gets the amount of attention that Sprague Brooke gets, or needs. I also understand that many riders prefer the trails there this way, as it keeps people out).

If it is the case that there is already too much work for the number of club members, then I have to ask, why? Why aren't there enough members to build trails, why aren't member s building trails, and why aren't new members coming in? What is the member retention rate? How many new members join a year? What is the responsibility of wnymba to bring in new members. Instead of hearing the complaints about the lack of people participating; what if wnymba actively pursuing new members? (Such as the riders looking to build these features?) I am sure this is a problem seen by many trail organizations as I don't know too many trail organizations who aren't all volunteers. How have these other organizations over come it?

"The reality is that the club is made up of members who advocate and build what they see fit. If it is cross county trails, then that is what it is. If it is to build trails to support a race series at a particular park, then great. "

I get that wnymba is a member driven organization. And builds trails to the taste of its members. In that case, though is it a true representation of the w n y mountain bike community? Should Western New York be taken out of the name and it be changed to the XC trail building club? If it isn't appealing to the wants of the w n y community, how does it represent it? if the club is truley not interested in building these features and trails, why not give the information the club has, contact info, etc etc to those riders so they can start building their own trails? Or should this riders just go do it completely on their own?

There is plenty of info on I M B A's page on building features on trails.
www.google.com/search?q=imba+featres+on+trails&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

If Whiteface and Gore can have a full on park on state owned facilities in a state park (Gore and Whiteface are both owned by the New York State Olympic Regional Development Authority why can't there be features? In the village of Lake Placid I was riding on trails with skinnies and all sorts of features built and plenty of go arounds and safe routes (and they were x c trails, nothing you would need a short travel bike for) When I asked for directions to these trails at a shop I was told to ride across the fairways of a gold course next to and around the driving range and I would find them. (The trails are located on the side of the village heading to Whiteface, on the right side of the road, obviously behind the golf course). I was riding by and through people playing golf to the trails and everyone seemed as if it was normal. Can you imagine the amount of red tape there must have been to make that happen? If there was a serious push to make this happen I think it could happen. If there isn't the will to attempt this within the club then give those people the names of important contacts, recommendations, contact info so that they can work outside of wnymba.

These features, trails and style of riding has the opportunity to unite this area of fractures riders. Maybe it should be given serious consideration .

velonews.competitor.com/2013/08/mtb/dirt-dispatch-gather-of-the-tribes_299316

Side note I've never been to a trail day, only been to a handful of meetings. But I've been riding long enough to have a pretty good idea of what's been going on as I've seen this same discussions go on for years. And I see this conversation come up every year and go no where. So yes, I'll be seen as many as a troll, and well that's fine that's the way it is. I will say as I've criticized wnymba on a number of occasions I do recognize that I mountain bike based on the efforts labor of wnymba and that is appreciated and acknowledged.

As for donuts, I had some delicious strawberry cheesecake concoction Paula's donuts the other day. Maybe this is the key to getting people out?
lowly shop broom pusher since 2000

Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44334

indigo22 wrote:
And did anyone see that descent on the c x course this weekend? That was a bit harrowing on a cross bike.


yeah, dat was some fun azz sh*t!
Velociped Jones is the future of racing and he was a P to A spawnling.

Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44335

Veliciped you had the bike for it. I was wishing for your bike, but maybe with some gearing. How was it riding that s s up that hill?
lowly shop broom pusher since 2000

Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44336

Right. So I agree that it would be a blast if there were better features on trails around here.

Freedom Park in Virginia is a great example of having mixed trails in one area. The C loop is one of the coolest trails to ride without having to have lift access.

Freedom Park

All that I am saying is that it will take more than just floating ideas on a webpage to get trails like this built. It will take an organized effort. Either working with the club or outside of the club, you will need a dedicated group of individuals to make trails like this happen. From raising funds, to raising awareness, to getting them built and maintained it will take a lot of work and effort.

I have a 160mm travel bike that collects cobwebs in the garage. It would be great to have a local park to rip, but I can't complain too much. At this point, I do not have the time to put into trying to get trails like this built around here. Maybe someday? It would be cool if KB or BSC had riding - they really wouldn't need lift access every day - climb the hill and flow back down....Dare to dream.

The cross course at BSC was fun - even on a cross bike.
  • Lucas
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Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44337

Here's the story, for those who don't know. I've spent a number of years on a trail crew for a bike park helping to build all types of features,and have moved several times to live near and ride bike parks in the east. I certainly have the know how and experience to build quality and lasting trails/features. Now that I am back in WNY,I have repeatedly contacted WNYMBA about gaining their support with building some progressive trails close to the Buffalo area. Each time my e-mails and posts get no response.(except for Jon S.) I've spent many days and weekends hiking the Buffalo area's parks and public lands looking for good building zones,(there are a few) and have even proposed a location,again with zero response. Basically all I was asking for was support with the county, as I know WNYMBA has had success here before.
I would be more than happy to plan,build and and donate the building materials myself, but simply lack support or even a response from WNYMBA.
Since I can't even get the simple courtesy of a response from WNYMBA, I have to assume this club does indeed only represent the XC side of things.

Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44339

sooo...when is the last time any of you been to a meeting...sat down with an Erie County official or a nys official?! just wondering. wnymba is mot anti more trails, fun trails, hard trails, jumps etc...just saying...
  • TJ_Zydel
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ahhhhh dude...

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Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44340

If WNYMBA is generally considered a XC/race type of club then one could assume that most of its members are interested in those aspects of mountain biking. The riders who are more interested in other types of riding probably do not join. If you then ask existing members for support on a different type of riding and get a very lukewarm response it would make sense. In order for the club to change it's image, there would have to be a influx of new members to join that are interested in the other types of riding/trails.
Does that make any sense?
The CX race at BSC was a blast on cross bike- slippery fun with canti's!

Penguin
Mommy- theres a root on the trail! Make it go away! I want my Binkie

Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44342

I rode Shindagin in Ithaca a week ago and the club there machine built in some great berms with alt lines. Was a lot of fun. Would like to see more of that around here.

Contact Gene Melnik. He recently had some ideas for some new trails, different from how WNYMBA has built in the past. WNYMBA put their support behind him and it looks like it will be happening after a lot of work on Gene's part. These would be more beginner type trails at Darien Lakes.

And remember, nothing on the forum has anything to do with WNYMBA, the club. It just provides the bandwidth.

Re: Where to build jumps/drops/berms.... 10 months, 3 weeks ago #44345

HHE is likely too much of a drive for some, but come on down, let's see what you were thinking for alternate lines that allow some air... no NorthShore stuff. just do it with berms, clay, rock and logs.. you put them in.. I'll do my best to maintain them...

HHE got built because I was bored with what was available close by, and didn't want to waste time driving when I could be riding... now gettin' closer to 12 miles of single track..

Land Managers have the final say, but as long as it's done sensibly, and doesn't become a hazard, I'd think there are possibilities out there. Get some like minded folks together, get to a meeting, the Club has tools, the relationship, and some volunteering folk, I know I'd give a day to feature building, rather than deberming and nicking..

But just so you know , I get very uneasy with both wheels off the ground at the same time.. i'm a wuss.. so just saying I may not be riding all the features,, but not against helping build them..
Last Edit: 10 months, 3 weeks ago by twright. Reason: mistake
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